CAA registration 'consultation'

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Martin
Posts: 305
Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 14:11
Location: Warwickshire

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by Martin » 23 Aug 2019, 17:24

It's good that the BMFA aren't denying membership to those who refuse to register on principle.

What's not good is the suggestion that the BMFA insurance scheme will probably not cover unregistered people who are attempting to make an insurance claim - the insurers will refuse the claim because, 'the flyer was unlicensed and therefore operating illegally.'

This takes away one of the major incentives for joining or remaining in the BMFA: many lone flyers only pay their BMFA subs in order to be insured; the only other tangible benefit to most of them is the BMFA magazine - and that's not good value for money.

Members of BMFA affiliated clubs will most likely continue to pay their BMFA subs so they can remain in their clubs - but they will be paying for insurance that's now worthless to them. There's a chance that their clubs will force them to register or leave the club because, "the club can't tolerate uninsured flyers."

So it's yet more counter-productive outcomes from introducing this mad scheme:
  • There will be more uninsured flyers than there were before.
  • Some people will drop out of clubs and the BMFA, because their club forces out any members who refuse to register.
  • Some of those drop-outs will give up the hobby: others will continue to fly, but uninsured and away from affiliated clubs.
  • BMFA membership will decline.
  • Club membership will decline.

jackdaw
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Location: Wet and Windy North Wales

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by jackdaw » 23 Aug 2019, 21:38

You don't have to register as a 'flyer' or an 'operator' if you only fly compliant sub 250gm models. My club has a number of FF and rubber powered model flyers. I'd be surprised if the club insisted on them having to register especially as the BMFA in the summary to their news letter stated that they or clubs would not be involved in checking for compliance with DRES.

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RON
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by RON » 23 Aug 2019, 22:19

Martin wrote:
23 Aug 2019, 17:24
It's good that the BMFA aren't denying membership to those who refuse to register on principle.
They are not likely to either, there’s 40 quid in it for them for every member that re joins
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NeilMac
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by NeilMac » 24 Aug 2019, 07:52

If the BMFA insurance turns out to be valid for those who don't register, then people like me will rejoin, if it isn't, I predict a loss of membership.

This bulldozer approach by the Govt. with no regard for the people who will be affected by their shiny new legislation feels horribly familiar.
"I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game"

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Shaun
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Location: West Yorkshire

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by Shaun » 24 Aug 2019, 08:16

Are people really going to give up this great hobby for £16.50... If so they can't have been very invested in it.

Shaun.

jackdaw
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by jackdaw » 24 Aug 2019, 10:16

Shaun,
I firmly believe that it will be significantly more than £16.50 within a year or two. Plus, its the principle of us recreational flyers effectively subsidising the commercial operators. We are the flyer and the operator, commercial organisations are the operator and can have numerous flyers.

NeilMac
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Location: Nth Somerset

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by NeilMac » 25 Aug 2019, 16:26

Here is the complete non response I have just received from the Dept of Transport.

I recently wrote to my local MP and to Grant Shapps about CAP1789 and they have only referred to CAP1775.

Now I may have my wires crossed here, but CAP1775 does not bother me at all, other than being a pointless register that costs me money and achieves absolutely nothing, where as CAP1789 as detailed in parts on here could effectively mean the end of model flying from a very large number of present sights, so I pay my £16.50 / £26.50/ £50.60 to register and shortly after that I have nowhere left to fly.

I will try to arrange a meeting with my MP, as this anonymous e-mail does nothing to address my concerns.

Neil
Response to TO, Chapter ID 264728.pdf
(84.46 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
"I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game"

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Phil_G
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by Phil_G » 26 Aug 2019, 21:36

I've lost all the links I'd saved relating to this, two I'd particularly like to find are the chart
depicting SUA categories C1, C2, C3 and C4, (I have CAP1789 on which the chart is based, but I'd like the chart, in the same 'table' format as the A1-A3 Operating Categories chart at the ens of CAP1789 Annex C)

...and

the parliament-tv link where Baroness Vere is describing her requirement for all SUAs to carry a transponder such that every individual airborne device can be identified.
I've spent 4 hours searching to no avail, did anyone keep these links please?
Cheers
Phil

Found the video:
https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Ind ... 663ad71067

House of Commons Science and Technology Committee,
Tuesday 9 July 2019 Meeting started at 9.27am, ended 11.38am

Baroness Vere speaking:
11:19 All UAVs to have transponders by July 2022 (3 year transition period from July 2019)
11:21 why 250gm
11:22 model aircraft putdown, BMFA as operator, legal liability
11:24 vetting of new club members
11:25 unmanned traffic management system, project chatham
11:27 mandatory geofencing, electronic conspicuity & noise restrictions by July 2022
11:29 raising awareness, education, drone code, dronesafe, droneaware website, competency testing
11:32 not registering - fixed penalty offence
11:34 perceived lack of respect for model aircraft flyers
11:35 no special treatment for model aircraft flyers, we will have to comply with the same mandatory geofencing, electronic conspicuity & noise restrictions by July 2022 (3 year transition period from July 2019)
​​​​​​​11:36 Retail staff training, online sales point compliance

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RON
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by RON » 12 Sep 2019, 10:37

an update from the BMFA website


I published an update on the BMFA website on 23rd August (https://bmfa.org/News/News-Page/Article ... del-flyers ) which provided a summary of our position at that time. This was also going to be the basis of my article for the forthcoming issue of the BMFA NEWS.

However, the very next day I received a telephone call to tell me that the new Secretary of State for Transport (the Rt Hon Grant Shapps MP) had picked up the case for us and would ‘be in touch’.

A few days later I received an invitation to attend a meeting with Grant at the Houses of Parliament. This meeting took place on Monday the 9th September and involved me (on behalf of the UK Model Flying Associations), Graham Brown from ARPAS (on behalf of commercial drone operators) and high-level delegations from both the CAA and DfT. The outcome of the meeting was that the CAA and DfT have been tasked to work in collaboration with us urgently to try and find an acceptable way forward.

This is very much work in progress and as such I cannot provide much definitive information at this time. Please monitor the BMFA website and Facebook page for further updates in due course.

However, what I can confirm already is that those who only fly control line aircraft will be exempted from the DRES requirements and I can also confirm that registration numbers can be carried in an easily accessible location (such as within battery compartments) rather than on the exterior of model aircraft. The registration fee is also likely to be subject to a change (for the better). These items are the starting point.

We would therefore encourage members not to rush into registering or taking the test when the DRES is rolled out in the next few weeks, until we have concluded our current round of discussions with the CAA and DfT and issued further guidance to members. For the time being, we would suggest that it remains ‘business as usual’.

Both the CAA and DfT have given a commitment to ‘re-set’ their relationships with the model flying community and work with us in close collaboration from this point forward, a very positive development which we greatly appreciate. It’s perhaps preferable to being inundated with correspondence from our magnificent members and their MP’s! Thanks again to all those members who have supported our relentless campaign so far.

Watch this space!

Dave Phipps CEO
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Colonel Blink
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by Colonel Blink » 12 Sep 2019, 12:19

Although I'll not hold my breath, it does seem like a slight zephyr of common sense may have wafted through this ill-advised and panic-based piece of legislation........... I'm quite sure that the best outcome will still not be to our liking, but hopefully it won't make 90% of model flying illegal as the current draft seems to!

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