S/C Encoder throttle sequences

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JohnH
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Jun 2019, 03:48
Location: Eden, MD USA

S/C Encoder throttle sequences

Post by JohnH » 24 Jul 2019, 20:29

After reading through the posts, I noticed that some have had trouble with the throttle positions, i.e. low-mid-high-mid-low, etc. The problem being with that arrangement is that if you are flying at mid throttle, unless you remember how you got there, you will not know if the next blip will give you low, or high throttle. You may not have time to study the LED blinks, or explore the throttle positions to sort out what you need. and it may take three blips to get to the throttle position you need.

The solution is to program the encoder to operate the throttle like all of the three position throttle escapements or S/C throttle servos used to operate. They all were sequential.
Hi-Med-Low-Hi, etc. That way you always knew what throttle position was next, and you could go from any throttle position to any other with only one or two blips.
Can the encoder be programmed to do this?
John H.
"Here's another fine mess you've gotten me into."
John H.
"Here's another fine mess you've gotten me into."

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Phil_G
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Re: S/C Encoder throttle sequences

Post by Phil_G » 24 Jul 2019, 21:01

Hi John
In the UK we had the Elmic Corporal throttle escapement which was only 2 position, and the Fred Rising which was 4 position (low-mid-high-mid-low-mid-high-mid...) .
In my own S/C emulation encoder these are the emulated escapements - to make it 3 position would mean its not a true emulation of either :D Having said that I have done 3-position versions on request.
Not sure about the others but mine has a throttle position indicator LED:
LED off is throttle closed, flashing is half throttle, on is full throttle. A ‘fast’ flash indicates that the next quick-blip will give high throttle. Conversely a ‘slow’ flash indicates that the next quick-blip will give low throttle. In this way you always know the next position.
Its all down to personal preference - these being UK developed emulations, they emulate the 2 or 4 position escapements we had in the UK.... but its a trivial task to change that.
The "low-mid-high-mid" positions are often in a four-element array so the two 'mid' settings dont even have to be equal - you could have a sequence of "low-25%-high-75%- etc" or "low-40%-high-60%-" etc. Personal choice.
Also the type of model affects the choice - a properly powered Sharkface is better with 'on/off' two-position as its not designed to 'cruise' and is generally wallowy and unresponsive if you try. The 'Tomboy Senior' on the other hand cruises nicely at a 60% mid setting. Horses for courses :D
Just my 2p
Cheers
Phil

JohnH
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Jun 2019, 03:48
Location: Eden, MD USA

Re: S/C Encoder throttle sequences

Post by JohnH » 26 Jul 2019, 17:32

Hello Phil,
Thank you for your explanation of the four position throttle. I did not know it was a true four position rather than a three position whose sequenced reversed. Nice to know that the three position throttle can be incorporated if wanted. I think I will try your idea of Low-25%-High-75%-Low. That way the Low could be for decent, and 25% mid for flair, then quickly through the sequence back to low after touchdown and roll out.
On my three position throttles, I would adjust low to provide a slow decent and soft touchdown, mid for cruise and maneuvers and high for climb or to assist in maneuvers such as during cuban, and vertical 8's.
I have a suggestion for the Throttle Position LED's. When one has to make a throttle decision RIGHT NOW it is sometimes difficult to immediately distinguish the slow blink from the fast blink, before it is too late. I would suggest setting the fast blink rate at 10/s to make it immediately recognizable.
My 2c :)
Best,
John

P.S. I have an order in for one of your three channel encoders for 2.4 GG conversion, Would it be possible to also include a programmed PIC for three position throttle for my S/C emulation board? I have a second board not yet installed that I could use to swap out the PIC for the three position one. The sequence is not really important as I am thinking of using your Throttle Widget to adjust the sequence and servo throw for each position.

P.P.S. Any more thoughts regarding programming your GG encoder to provide throttle cycling for Rand Actuators? I have four or five Rand GG paks in flyable condition, and would love to use them, but, as I have found out, my 27 mHz transmitters are too susceptible to interferance to continue to use. :oops:
John H.
"Here's another fine mess you've gotten me into."

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Phil_G
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Re: S/C Encoder throttle sequences

Post by Phil_G » 26 Jul 2019, 23:46

JohnH wrote:
26 Jul 2019, 17:32
...Would it be possible to also include a programmed PIC for three position throttle for my S/C emulation board?
Yep, no problem John
JohnH wrote:
26 Jul 2019, 17:32
The sequence is not really important...
It will be low-high-mid-low-high-mid as you requested - though personally if I used a 3-way throttle I think I would prefer low-mid-high-low-mid-high ;)
JohnH wrote:
26 Jul 2019, 17:32
P.P.S. Any more thoughts regarding programming your GG recoder to provide throttle cycling for Rand Actuators? I have four or five Rand GG paks in flyable condition
I will look at it John, the problem is I get so many requests for some one-off variation or other of a mature project that I just dont have time to accommodate them all and some read like 'demands' rather than requests. It is possible and I'll have a look as soon as I get a mo, but one-offs generally take quite some time for little take-up, and I test every feasible condition in every possible combination before releasing anything, it all takes time but testing is not something I'd dismiss lightly :D
EDIT: done, viewtopic.php?f=7&t=756
JohnH wrote:
26 Jul 2019, 17:32
...it is sometimes difficult to immediately distinguish the slow blink from the fast blink, before it is too late. I would suggest setting the fast blink rate at 10/s to make it immediately recognizable.
Because of the way the PIC code works, I can only double the fast flashrate, I can supply that if its a requirement. In your case you wouldn't notice though John as your preferred sequence skips the 'fast flash' stage :D

Cheers
Phil

JohnH
Posts: 18
Joined: 18 Jun 2019, 03:48
Location: Eden, MD USA

Re: S/C Encoder throttle sequences

Post by JohnH » 27 Jul 2019, 05:08

Hi Phil,

Yes, Please make the 3 position throttle sequence Low - Mid - High - Low - Mid - High as you suggested. I would also like to get two of the PIC's in case I also want to replace the PIC in my current transmitter.

Your consideration of giving the Rand Actuator throttle control some thought is much appreciated. I understand your comments on "one off''s" and the work involved and would not want you to have to invest so much time just for me. I wonder how many others there are who, like me, have Rand actuators and would be interested in a GG encoder that could operate the throttle. Maybe I can do a poll on the GG thread? If many are interested, maybe it would be worth trying?

Part of my problem with the LED's is that I mounted them on the back of the Tx case, not thinking that I would have to see them while flying. On my next Tx conversion with the 3 position throttle, I will be sure to mount them on the front, or maybe not use them, as the engine sound would let me know what will be next.

Best regards,
John
John H.
"Here's another fine mess you've gotten me into."

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