Reeduino buddy box

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jmendoza
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Joined: 18 Feb 2018, 23:07

Reeduino buddy box

Post by jmendoza »

It is unclear to me how the 2.4GHz module in the reed transmitter gets shut off when the Master transmitter is in use. There is no switching circuit I can see that would interrupt the modulation to the reed transmitter's module. I plan to use a DX-6i as the master for proportional flying, and the reeduino, or PhilG reed emulator for the reed box.

Maybe somebody here can shed light on how the buddy box feature works with a Reeduino and the Phil G reed emulator.

Is it just as simple as unplugging the 3 pin plug from the module to the Pro Mini-Strong board to use it as a buddy box? If so, I did not see any reference to so doing.

Thanks,
Jay
Martin
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Location: Warwickshire

Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by Martin »

I don't think you want to shut down the 2.4GHz module. The receiver is bound to that one module and that module has to keep transmitting. What you have to change is the signal - PPM or whatever - that feeds into that module.

That's the way any buddy box system works, as far as I know. Even the old long antenna sets on 72MHz or 35MHz or whatever didn't change between two transmitter modules - the same transmitter HF module always controlled the plane and the buddy box system just feeds that HF module either with control inputs from the master set, or the slave set, or some mixture of the two.

I think the only way to switch between two different transmitter HF modules would be to have two receivers on board the plane - one bound to each module. Then you could have some circuitry on board the plane to recognize that one of the transmitters was no longer transmitting, and switch over to the other one.
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Phil_G
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Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by Phil_G »

I haven't documented it cos to be honest I'm not a huge fan of buddy-boxing Jay, and I always try to persuade others not to... its just too much faffing about with trims and throws and reversing and matching up and "you have control" nonsense and wires all over the place, its all just too distracting. A wireless buddy is better but it gives the mistaken impression of flying solo. My own view is that a nice stable model with a dedicated reeds transmitter is a much better idea.
If I did use a buddy, I definitely wouldnt use a cable, I'd use a CPPM receiver on the master. This would also get around the troublesome Spektrum 400uS PPM.
I'm not sure why you're so apprehensive of reeds Jay, theres no need to be, its really very easy to fly and a competent flyer like yourself will be fine without a buddy box! I would suggest you forget the buddy box idea altogether, you'll be fine and you'll enjoy it all the more knowing you are solely in control :D

Will any other reed flyers back me up on this please? its no harder than flying propo is it? ;)

Cheers
Phil

PS if you absolutely must use a buddy lead, then yes, take the PPM output from the encoder (D0) to the common of a two-position change-over switch, with one side to the RF module and the other side to the trainer port output. If you want to disable the RF (why? no need...) then use a two-pole switch, one pole changes over the PPM and the other switches the RF module power.
But really, the whole buddy thing... I wouldnt bother :D

PPS Hi Martin, Merry Christmas!
Martin
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Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by Martin »

Maybe I misunderstood.

If the reed set is going to be the slave, there's no need to shut down its 2.4GHz module. The model will be bound to the module in the master transmitter - what does it matter if the reed set module is still transmitting? It's a little extra drain on the battery, and one more 2.4GHz transmitter switched on but controlling nothing: it's not doing any harm so why bother to switch it off?
jmendoza
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Joined: 18 Feb 2018, 23:07

Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by jmendoza »

Ok, thanks.
I got confused because Dave Rigotti appeared to use a buddy box (proportional) to maiden his Sr. Falcon before flying solo with the reed Tx.

I could simply get the plane in trim with my DX-6i, and then bind it to my Reeduino and set the trims so they are the same.

Hey Phil, can I use 4.7K instead of 10K on the toggles?
I'm short on 10K resistors at the moment.
Scott Todd
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Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 23:21

Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by Scott Todd »

I often test fly one of my conversions as a slave on the buddy box. I did today. This Hobby Lobby (EK in disguise) hadn't flown in a while and I wanted to pass it around. People are generally nervous about flying others models but they usually step right up when they find out its just a slave to my holding the Master. I spent about 5 minutes setting it up at home to get the trims close. We definitely spent more time than that handing it around :)

I acquired a nice DIY Reed from Jean Marie (JMP on RCG). We have flown it stand alone and as a buddy box. Its a great way to let others try it.

Its a great feature that really works well. Put a Spektrum module in there and go for it Jay:) And once you get it trimmed and get the hang of it with a little confidence, cut the invisible cord and bind it directly to the airplane and go!

Scott
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jmendoza
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Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by jmendoza »

Right-o Philster!

OK I have 2% 4.752K resistors, should be accurate enough, and I have 500 of them.

Got it on the speed pot, and it is really one of the neatest thing about your original Reed encoder, I enjoyed fine tuning the servos to act like Duramites.

The lamp on the battery voltage makes more sense, it will dim as the voltage drops and not load the 5 Volt vreg reference, very good point Phil.

Never thought about a resistor in series with the motor on original reed throttle servo to control it's speed, but that is a perfect and simple solution...simple is good. I never have flown reeds, but sure have repaired my share of original systems, enough to have a lot of respect for the guys who did fly them. Getting them adjusted for simultaneous operation is an art unto itself.

Got it on the throttle reversing, I'll follow your advice and remove the propeller until it's all set-up correctly, and remember to set low throttle every time before turning on the plane.

I'll get my camera working and take photos of the Orbit build, and post them here.
Date codes on the pots and tubes read mid 1961 to 1962, date on bottom of the UM-1 size crystal was 2-63, so Orbit was still making tube sets up to that point in time. This must have been one of their last tube reed sets made before they went to solid state. It belonged to Meyer Gutman.

Jack Albrecht sent me an Orbit 12 he converted to 6 meters FM using a Ron Ellis reed encoder, it works pretty well, but is different than the Reeduino and PIC Reed emulator. Of course, I have been too chicken to try and fly it Do I hear Cluck, cluck, bee-gaack! That must be Lucy, my pet Buff Orpington.

OK Scott Todd, you get to be the test pilot when I get this built, we can use my Jr. Skylark. See you at Torrey Pines in February for their Fun-Fly and swap meet, should be a good one.

Phil, your patience and advice is my Christmas present, thanks again so much!
Jay
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Mike_K
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Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by Mike_K »

Hi Jay

There is a very easy way to wirelessly "buddy box" any two transmitters together using an onboard servo multiplexer from Pololu:

https://www.pololu.com/product/2806

or Wireless Buddy Box from Hobby King:

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/wireless-bu ... oller.html

You need a receiver for both transmitters and both connect to the the "multiplexer" with the master having an additional channel to control the master/slave. I've used both the Pololu and HK and had hundreds of flights without an issue. It beats having to connect two transmitters with a cable and will work with any brand of transmitters, they can have different channel orders, it just doesn't matter as you put the channels in the correct order with the leads.

As I wasn't confident flying reeds in front of a crowd at the time, I took a wireless buddy box setup to Ponty in 2018 with my Graupner Variophon (slave) buddied to my Skyleader SLX (master) flying an old Junior 60. If any of my friends want a go at flying R/C on my farm, its what I use with a modern JR (slave) and Skyleader (master) with a Mini Super trainer or MPX Easy Glider.

Cheers

Mike
Spike S
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Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by Spike S »

Phil_G wrote: 22 Dec 2019, 23:18 Will any other reed flyers back me up on this please? its no harder than flying propo is it? ;)
Cheers
Phil
I tend to agree but it rather depends on how many bad trimming habits you have developed while flying Propo.
If you come to reeds with only a Propo history, you may have distinct reservations. If you come to Reeds from s/c (guided free flight with inherent Pitch and Roll stability) with a stable model type then Reeds are a definite increase in control functionality. Attempting a Reeds aerobatic 'full-house' as a first project could easily result in disillusionment.
Having said that, I also use the Polulu airborne Multiplexer to allow different Tx types and 'wireless' buddy-box ability to give novices a good first experience. The airborne 2 Rx system is also a good way to conduct in safety an airborne true range capability of a new or suspect Rx
Spike S
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Scott Todd
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Joined: 26 Mar 2018, 23:21

Re: Reeduino buddy box

Post by Scott Todd »

Well yeah, its no harder than flying propo but then again, single channel is even easier right? After all, it only has one button. As experienced modelers, we take a lot for granted. I watch new flyers every day at the RC park by my house struggle.

"its just too much faffing about with trims and throws and reversing and matching up..." Really? This reminds me of the old guy with the Eflite Valiant that won't use flaps because it causes the airplane to pitch. When asked why he doesn't just go in his DX8 (modern computer radio) and add the elevator compensation or a mix, he does the Bah Hum Bug routine about computers and such. Then he gets picks up his DX5 (simple featureless box) to fly his other airplane :(

"I'd use a CPPM receiver on the master"
"take the PPM output from the encoder"
"onboard servo multiplexer"
"a receiver for both transmitters"
"I also use the Polulu airborne Multiplexer"

These are all probably good solutions for some special cases, but...

The modern Spektrum wireless buddy box feature is awesome. Borrow a DX6 or pick one up used and join the modern age. I always get them at swap meets for $40-50 and end up giving them away. And Jay already has Orange DSM modules around for other conversions. I feel like readers here just haven't tried it...I get this is a vintage forum and guys are playing with vintage equipment, but there is nothing wrong with mixing a little modern with the old. It adds to the experience, makes people feel more comfortable about trying new stuff, and adds safety.

I really want to be there when Jay slaps himself on the forehead and goes "Duhh". He is a grumpy old guy but is generally open to learning new stuff. And Phil's comment about him being a 'competent' flyer is stretching it a bit ;)

Scott
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