Early Skyleaders
- stuart mackay
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 01 Mar 2018, 10:38
- Location: Swaffham, Norfolk
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Early Skyleaders
With sincere thanks to our erstwhile Patron, Mike Kitchen and a fellow collector from Norway, today I had the very rare opportunity and privilege to gather some early Skyleader Transmitters together for a photo shoot...Enjoy!
Hopefully, Mike will be able to add some of his other rarities from his collection to these?
Hopefully, Mike will be able to add some of his other rarities from his collection to these?
- RobertC
- Posts: 114
- Joined: 04 Sep 2020, 15:13
- Location: Grimsby UK
Re: Early Skyleaders
Excellent pictures. Early ones show use of the Bonner Sticks I am I correct ?, very reminiscent of early RCS gear .
I’ve finished off a much later courier set , taken months to finish but done with Rose gold encrusted accruements
I’ll post a pic later on
I’ve finished off a much later courier set , taken months to finish but done with Rose gold encrusted accruements
I’ll post a pic later on
- stuart mackay
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 01 Mar 2018, 10:38
- Location: Swaffham, Norfolk
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Re: Early Skyleaders
Yes Rob, Bonner sticks and auxiliary controls used on the 4 & 6.
Kraft Hayes used on the SL and I believe, the Clubman
-
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- Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 13:57
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Re: Early Skyleaders
Very nice! I haven't seen one of those Bonner stick ones since - oooh - around 1968!
You are still missing the very first one, though! It was a 3+1 system, using Bonner sticks, and remarkably similar to the F&M 3+1 system. I think that (like the F&M), it also used Bonner Digimite servos. The case was also F&M blue!
A quick history lesson!
Around 1967 (give or take a year!), pylon racing started to become popular in the USA again. It had fallen a bit by the wayside, but interest picked up with a new class of "Goodyear" racers, which had to be scale replicas of full size Goodyear racers (Shoestrings, Cosmic Winds, DeNight Specials, etc). They weren't required to be exact replicas, but close enough to fool a knowledgeable spectator. Power had to be supplied by an "off-the-shelf" 40 - no special racing engines allowed!
At the time, most proportional radios were big and bulky, and were a tight squeeze in a 40 size racing model! So, Orbit introduced an analogue 3+1 system, closely followed by F&M with a digital 3+1.
These were basic 3 channel systems, but had 4 servos. The rudder servo only worked when the throttle was not fully open. As soon as full throttle was reached, the rudder servo centered, and stayed that way until the throttle was reduced.
The idea was that as the rudder was only used during take-off and landing - and given that these were racers, they really didn't need 100% throttle on take-off - the rudder would only function during take-off and landing, and during the race, flying would be by "bank and yank"!
It meant that the receivers could be made significantly smaller and lighter than the full blown sets, and would be easier to install in the smaller models.
Within a couple of years, technology had moved on and the gains were no longer significant. 3+1 sets died the death. But for a brief period they were popular, not only for being smaller and lighter, but also cheaper than their "big brother" sets.
Here endeth the lesson!
--
Pete
You are still missing the very first one, though! It was a 3+1 system, using Bonner sticks, and remarkably similar to the F&M 3+1 system. I think that (like the F&M), it also used Bonner Digimite servos. The case was also F&M blue!
A quick history lesson!
Around 1967 (give or take a year!), pylon racing started to become popular in the USA again. It had fallen a bit by the wayside, but interest picked up with a new class of "Goodyear" racers, which had to be scale replicas of full size Goodyear racers (Shoestrings, Cosmic Winds, DeNight Specials, etc). They weren't required to be exact replicas, but close enough to fool a knowledgeable spectator. Power had to be supplied by an "off-the-shelf" 40 - no special racing engines allowed!
At the time, most proportional radios were big and bulky, and were a tight squeeze in a 40 size racing model! So, Orbit introduced an analogue 3+1 system, closely followed by F&M with a digital 3+1.
These were basic 3 channel systems, but had 4 servos. The rudder servo only worked when the throttle was not fully open. As soon as full throttle was reached, the rudder servo centered, and stayed that way until the throttle was reduced.
The idea was that as the rudder was only used during take-off and landing - and given that these were racers, they really didn't need 100% throttle on take-off - the rudder would only function during take-off and landing, and during the race, flying would be by "bank and yank"!
It meant that the receivers could be made significantly smaller and lighter than the full blown sets, and would be easier to install in the smaller models.
Within a couple of years, technology had moved on and the gains were no longer significant. 3+1 sets died the death. But for a brief period they were popular, not only for being smaller and lighter, but also cheaper than their "big brother" sets.
Here endeth the lesson!
--
Pete
- stuart mackay
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 01 Mar 2018, 10:38
- Location: Swaffham, Norfolk
- Contact:
Re: Early Skyleaders
Pchristy wrote: ↑05 Dec 2020, 16:50 Very nice! I haven't seen one of those Bonner stick ones since - oooh - around 1968!
You are still missing the very first one, though! It was a 3+1 system, using Bonner sticks, and remarkably similar to the F&M 3+1 system. I think that (like the F&M), it also used Bonner Digimite servos. The case was also F&M blue!
A quick history lesson!
Around 1967 (give or take a year!), pylon racing started to become popular in the USA again. It had fallen a bit by the wayside, but interest picked up with a new class of "Goodyear" racers, which had to be scale replicas of full size Goodyear racers (Shoestrings, Cosmic Winds, DeNight Specials, etc). They weren't required to be exact replicas, but close enough to fool a knowledgeable spectator. Power had to be supplied by an "off-the-shelf" 40 - no special racing engines allowed!
At the time, most proportional radios were big and bulky, and were a tight squeeze in a 40 size racing model! So, Orbit introduced an analogue 3+1 system, closely followed by F&M with a digital 3+1.
These were basic 3 channel systems, but had 4 servos. The rudder servo only worked when the throttle was not fully open. As soon as full throttle was reached, the rudder servo centered, and stayed that way until the throttle was reduced.
The idea was that as the rudder was only used during take-off and landing - and given that these were racers, they really didn't need 100% throttle on take-off - the rudder would only function during take-off and landing, and during the race, flying would be by "bank and yank"!
It meant that the receivers could be made significantly smaller and lighter than the full blown sets, and would be easier to install in the smaller models.
Within a couple of years, technology had moved on and the gains were no longer significant. 3+1 sets died the death. But for a brief period they were popular, not only for being smaller and lighter, but also cheaper than their "big brother" sets.
Here endeth the lesson!
--
Pete
- stuart mackay
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 01 Mar 2018, 10:38
- Location: Swaffham, Norfolk
- Contact:
Re: Early Skyleaders
Family shot
- Mike_K
- Posts: 669
- Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 06:35
- Location: Hertfordshire
Re: Early Skyleaders
Here you go Pete, the Skyleader 3+1 together with one of the last, the Skyleader Apex. Sorry for the poor lighting, it was too late to set anything up properly.
The Skyleader 3+1 is an unusual transmitter, the throttle lever has a mechanical indent near full throttle that lets you know when the rudder would be centred. The blue colour is near identical to all of my OS reed sets, and not much of a match for the F&M blue of my F&M propo or Matador (though they're not the same blue either).
I recently found out that Skyleader licenced the PCM encoding for the Apex PCM and International from Microprop of Germany, who made many of the earlier Sprengbrook. And much to my surprise, the Apex Tx will happily work with a Microprop PCM receiver!
I can't wait to collect the Skyleader 4 from Stuart as it will complete my Skyleader collection, I think I'll have at least one of each of the models, 3+1, Skyleader 4, SL, 3S, Supermarine, Clubman, SLX, later Clubman, TSX, TS, Clubman Super, Courier, Courier Special, Courier Special MK2, International and Apex! Another display cabinet needed.
Cheer Mike
- RobertC
- Posts: 114
- Joined: 04 Sep 2020, 15:13
- Location: Grimsby UK
Re: Early Skyleaders
Lovely looking sets
-
- Posts: 413
- Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 13:57
- Location: South Devon, UK
Re: Early Skyleaders
Interestingly, although the ad clearly shows Kraft servos with the 4/6 channel sets, the example in the photos appears to have Orbits. I suspect a previous owner switched them! Those early Kraft servos were fast, but not very reliable!
As I recalled, the 3+1 uses Bonner Digimite servos. These had a failsafe - unlike the Kraft or Orbit ones - which made the task of centering the rudder on WOT much easier!
Nice to see them after all this time!
--
Pete
As I recalled, the 3+1 uses Bonner Digimite servos. These had a failsafe - unlike the Kraft or Orbit ones - which made the task of centering the rudder on WOT much easier!
Nice to see them after all this time!
--
Pete
- stuart mackay
- Posts: 501
- Joined: 01 Mar 2018, 10:38
- Location: Swaffham, Norfolk
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Re: Early Skyleaders
Pete, the Orbit PS2 belong to the later copper coloured 6 channel set, rather than Mike's earlier 4, the wiring to the Orbits all looks original and I wonder if it might have been a transition model just before the introduction of the SL which has Orbit PS3s from new.Pchristy wrote: ↑06 Dec 2020, 17:36 Interestingly, although the ad clearly shows Kraft servos with the 4/6 channel sets, the example in the photos appears to have Orbits. I suspect a previous owner switched them! Those early Kraft servos were fast, but not very reliable!
As I recalled, the 3+1 uses Bonner Digimite servos. These had a failsafe - unlike the Kraft or Orbit ones - which made the task of centering the rudder on WOT much easier!
I am unsure of when the PS2s were replaced by the PS3s,or indeed even if there was a cut-off point between the two servo types? We might get within a year and that would give more evidence if the 6 would have had them supplied by the factory...think Mike might be spending a few more hours thumbing through RCM&E and Radio Modellers to give a definitive answer?
If you look carefully, you will see this one ( the 6) has several detail differences to the earlier "rose" coloured 4, badging and handle being the most obvious.
According to the December 1967 RCM&E advert that I have found, the Orbit PS2 were available ex works as an option to the Kraft and F&M servos. And, maybe the copper coloured 6 with the clear differences in Tx badging is a mark 2 referred to in the October 1968 RCM&E advert and used the SL badging?