Orange module has to be re bound every time !

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stormer254
Posts: 91
Joined: 03 Mar 2018, 10:08

Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by stormer254 »

Not a single channel question but I am hoping someone on here might be able to advise as this is a very knowledgeable forum, I have asked elsewhere and the only answer I have received is that the module is not very good,(crap) and to replace with an open source module!

I have a Jr TX with an Orange module, used to work fine but now I have to rebind every time I switch model, I have tried a different Orange module, a different JR TX, various RX DSM2 and DSMX and it is the same every time, once bound however it seems to be solid. Not too keen on ditching it all as the TX has been converted to Single stick and I have about 30 RX and 2 modules despite my distrust of DSM Spectrum operating systems, any idea what I am doing wrong, most of my radio problems seem to be my fault!
I hope this okay to post
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Shaun
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Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 21:49
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by Shaun »

Hi Stormer,
This is the place to post when you want assistance. I afraid I can't advise you re the issue you're experiencing but I'm sure help will be available from our resident electonic geniuses.

It always makes me smile that modellers are distrustful of Spektrum gear. I owned one of the first DX7's in the UK so I'm a very long time user. I've had 1000's of flights over the years with DSM2 & DSMX in aircraft and multi rotors totally problem free. As part of a 1/3 scale WW1 display team I've flown in large groups ( 20 models in the air at once) at shows in the UK and Germany and the only occasional issues I've had were down to my dumb thumbs.

Genuine Spektrum is no better or worse than all other mainstream gear but it is infinitely better than my old 35MHz radio's when it comes to interference rejection.

Re the Hobby King orange gear, I've bought around 60 of their RX's over the years for use in Multirotors and smaller models and only had one duff unit that wouldn't hold bind; it needed rebinding every time it was powered up. Solved it by binning it😀

Hope you get sorted soon.

Cheers,

Shaun
Martin
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Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 14:11
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by Martin »

It's probably the 'mode' your Orange transmitter module is set to. Switch on the transmitter, without holding the bind. Once it's finished powering up, the LED on the back of the module indicates the mode. There are four modes.

Mode 0: LED off. Transmitter is sending a DSM 2 signal, every 11 milliseconds
Mode 1: LED flashing regularly: Transmitter is sending a DSM 2 signal every 22 milliseconds
Mode 2: (two flashes - it goes flash flash pause, flash flash pause, ...) Transmitter is sending a DSM X signal every 11 milliseconds
Mode 3: (three flashes) Transmitter is sending a DSM X signal every 22 milliseconds.

I may have the 11 and 22 the wrong way round - but it doesn't matter - the DSM2 modes are definitely the first two and the DSMX modes the last two.

When you put the transmitter/receiver into bind, then the receiver actually talks back to the transmitter (only at close range) so the receiver can work out the best mode to use. When you do this, the transmitter can swap modes to one that will work with that receiver - but the transmitter doesn't remember that mode the next time it's powered down - it goes back to its stored mode, indicated by the number of flashes.

If you look at the transmitter LED immediately after binding (before you switch the transmitter off) it will be indicating, by the number of flashes, the mode it's negotiated with the receiver it's just bound to.

To swap your transmitter's mode (without rebinding) you have to wait for it to finish powering up normally (don't touch the bind button till it's going) and then do three quick presses on the bind button: press-press-press You have to do them quite quick. When you're successful, you'll see the number of flashes change, and once it's the correct number that it used when binding, you'll be good to go and no need to rebind every flight.

If all your receivers are the same type, then once you've set the transmitter mode to match them, then you don't have to touch anything again, but if you have mixture of DSM 2 and DSM X receivers, you have to do the three presses thing to choose the right mode when swapping from one model to another.

On my transmitters with a model memory, and a model name display, I used to include the number of flashes at the end of the name - so I'd have like, 'Barnstormer-3' or whatever. If you're using the module in a replica transmitter with no 'model memory' screen, then I recommend a label on or inside each model that says how many flashes on the transmitter module it's looking for.

Multimodules (if the transmitter supports them) have the benefit that the transmitter can remember the correct mode for each model - and swap the module to the right mode without any button pressing, when you just select the model memory.

Don't hold down the bind button for a very long time (like ten seconds plus, I think it is). That does a different thing. It makes the transmitter module choose a new random ID (Identification number - like a serial number or phone number, that the transmitter sends whenever it's transmitting). It's this ID that all the bound receivers remember, so they know they're listening to the right transmitter, and can ignore all the others. If you do the ten second thing then the transmitter chooses a new ID - and then you have to rebind ALL the receivers that were previously bound to it.
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iflylilplanes
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Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by iflylilplanes »

Martin is correct, I had the same issue with my Orange module, the problem was that I had 50/50 DSM2/DSMX receivers, the module will only work with one protocol or the other at a time. Go over your receivers and ID them, DSM2 and DSMX, if you switch between DSM2 receivers you should not have to rebind, unless they are working on different speeds, then if you go to a DSMX receiver, then you will have to rebind. Remember, the speed is an issue for DSMX too. I would pick a protocol and a speed and try to stick to that.
Cheers,

Dave
Martin
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Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 14:11
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by Martin »

No Dave, you don't need to rebind to switch modes when switching between different types of receiver. You only need to do the transmitter bind button triple-press trick - see my long-winded explanation above, for details.

I agree it's easier to stick to the same mode for all your models, if you can.

Most DSM X receivers are capable of binding to DSM2 transmitters in DSM2 mode ( so they maintain compatibility with older Spektrum transmitters that didn't have DSMX ). But you lose the better interference rejection of the DSMX mode, of course.

The 11ms vs 22ms thing is trickier: 11ms modes have half the latency but also half the resolution. Cheap servos don't have the resolution anyway, so 11ms is fine for them. I think 11ms mode also is more limited on the number of channels it can do. Most of us are old enough that we don't have the reaction times to notice any difference with the slower 22ms mode. I think it only makes a noticeable difference for young pilots flying twitchy models equipped with fast servos.

Many of the 'ready to bind' Spektrum compatible models (little drones, helicopters, and such) will only bind in one specific mode.
stormer254
Posts: 91
Joined: 03 Mar 2018, 10:08

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by stormer254 »

Thanks for the help particularly Martin's detailed explanation, I shall bring some models indoors if her SWMBO will let me and try again to see if I can master it! Far too cold and messy to do it in what passes as a model room.
stormer254
Posts: 91
Joined: 03 Mar 2018, 10:08

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by stormer254 »

Well her indoors very kindly let me bring in a load of models and have a go again at this binding lark! No change I'm afraid, as I have 2 modules I use the newer V2 one for the Dsm2 rx's and the older one for Dsmx, I only have a few of the Dsmx rx's. The Dsm one has a solid led and doesn't flash. This is the relevant part of the instructions-
LED functionality:
During normal working operation LED indicates current working mode. You can see what current mode is active
Single blinks - DSM2, 1024, 22ms
Double blinks - DSMX, 2048, 22ms
Constant ON. - Auto mode
So it is auto mode, when switching to a previously bound rx it invariably is no longer bound or if bound the functions are different and not working correctly, if I try switching them on again occasionally it will work correctly but this takes up to 3 to 6 times but normally it is just unbound. Rebinding works successfully every time and is solid with good range and no discernible glitches. I flew one model about 10 times last week, flattening batteries and bind never moved. Soon as I changed models, no bind to the new model and the previous model then needed rebinding.

The older module flashes twice so is in Dsmx mode as its instructions below! I changed it to Dsmx using the bind button pressing technique
ORX 2.4GHz Transmitter Module Working Modes
The ORX 2.4GHz Transmitter Module has four working modes. Turn the transmitter on and the
green LED on the module will indicate the current working mode (see the table below).
LED Working Mode
OFF DSM2 1024/22ms
 flashes DSM2 2048/11ms
 flashes DSMX 22ms
 flashes DSMX 11ms
This module does the same unbinding thing. The only other thing I have been told on another forum is that the Orange firmware is not very good (crap) and that I should reflash them with the "much better" MPM firmware. I have looked this up and come to the conclusion that any flashing I can do will end up me in jail! I definitely have neither the skills or tools to do anything like this. In my previous life I was a builder and a lump hammer is my tool of choice!
It is extremely annoying as it all functioned properly originally, I am considering purchasing a 4-In-1 STM32 Multiprotocol TX Module with Case for JR IRX4 Plus 2.4G CC2500 NRF24L01 A7105 CYRF69364 which seems to do everything, has any one any experience with this type of module or am throwing good after bad!
If anyone reads and understands this lengthy and garbled story of my problem I would be very grateful for any advice. Failing that I would swap the modules and RXs for 25 FASST rxs, not much chance of this!
Many thanks, Steve.
bluejets
Posts: 316
Joined: 19 Jun 2019, 04:09

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by bluejets »

Just a thought...I found the bind plug has to be removed before powering down the receiver after it binds.
stormer254
Posts: 91
Joined: 03 Mar 2018, 10:08

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by stormer254 »

A good point, I have forgotten occasionally but not on a regular basis :D
jmendoza
Posts: 167
Joined: 18 Feb 2018, 23:07

Re: Orange module has to be re bound every time !

Post by jmendoza »

I have one Orange RX DSM2/X Futaba Auto module that will not hold a bind. I noticed that when testing the time it takes for the receiver to re-acquire the transmitter after shutting off and turning it on again, every once in a while, the receiver would no re-acquire and needed to be re-bound.

Sometimes I could cycle the Tx on and off up to 20 or more times before it would no longer hold bind to the receiver. I tried several different receivers and Tx module modes, but the problem persisted.

You have a bad module, like me. I still have the module and use it for testing only.

One other Orange RX module I had was JR/Spektrum, switchable DSM2/X and after a short period of time, the LED and buzzer quit. It still works however. I looked for bad solder joints and cracked SMT components but could not find any. Out of over 50 or so OrangeRX Modules, these two were problematic, but still work to some extent.

I understand that the Orange RX DIY versions are problematic and I cannot help but think it may be related to them not getting enough cooling as they are wrapped in heat shrink.
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