Encoders

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Phil_G
Posts: 597
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 23:32
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Encoders

Post by Phil_G »

I've been thinking and I've pretty much decided to leave the retro encoders to Mike & friends, I'll still do my S/C Emulation Encoder, now in its 13th year (!) and maybe the Reeduino, but with the superior boards produced by others its no longer really worth it. I've had an expensive run recently which has kicked this off - replacements sent FoC for several missing items, & items blown up by users, returned items that test absolutely perfectly but have to be replaced for user confidence, others claimed 'never worked' needing replacement - I thoroughly test all encoders for all functions and I am 100% certain all are ok on despatch, and all are well packed. Of all the encoders sent out over the last few weeks, maybe a third have been paid for. It was never for profit, its supposed to be fun but this is disappointing & stressful - and I just cant afford it :) I also had a run of a dozen or more DIY-Mores that were delivered with PCB shorts, easily spotted on test but returning faulty boards to China isnt feasible so its more wasted money.
Its partly my own fault for telling inexperienced builders that its easy and ideal for a first project, and recent delivery problems are probably related to the Royal Mail ransomware attack - I've never used 'tracked' as its so much more expensive, hence no compensation :?
A sincere thank-you though to the (literally) hundreds of happy converters for their support & confidence, its great to see all the old sets and flight videos, and in the flesh at Ponty, long may it continue :)
Cheers all
Phil
Edit Fri 24/02 - another 'lost in the post' to replace FoC.
Later Edit - another order lost in transit, another three encoders to replace!
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Shaun
Posts: 1049
Joined: 15 Feb 2018, 21:49
Location: West Yorkshire

Re: Encoders

Post by Shaun »

I know the care and attention to detail you take on all your widgets.
It's a real shame that some people won't admit their failings when problems occur and it's clearly their fault and want it replacing for free. As you said you have never charged enough considering the time and energy you put into making each propo encoder board..
Less stress is the way forward. đź‘Ť
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PaulJ
Posts: 598
Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 19:01
Location: Ipswich, UK

Re: Encoders

Post by PaulJ »

I was really sorry to read this....... Phil opened up this whole new branch of the hobby and I have had about fifteen of the 7 Channel encoders, all of which have worked perfectly. Mike's encoders owe their origin to Phil's original code and are amazing but definitely "next generation" and more complicated so I was still planning to use Phil's Arduino based boards for some "vintage" transmitters for which they have more than enough facilities. Phil, will you still be doing the Digisparks for the 2,3 and 4 channel basic trannies ?

Paul
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Mike_K
Posts: 669
Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 06:35
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Encoders

Post by Mike_K »

I find Phil's situation sad on a number of fronts.

I've only been selling encoder boards for a few months and have already had similar experiences, a small minority of customers thinking Phil and me are commercial enterprises like Spektrum or Futaba, whereas we're just individuals trying to cover our costs and share our passion of converting vintage transmitters to 2.4GHz.

I'm charging more for my encoders than Phil, but I'm not certain that I'm breaking even and Phil must have been making a loss. In effect, he has been subsidising every encoder he sells. Why would he do that? Because he loves to share his hobby and make it accessible for all, including the less technically gifted modeller. This approach is probably alien to some of our overseas friends who treat everything as commercial once there is a price put on it, it’s just a difference in cultures. In effect, Phil had treated every customer as a friend, but they've treated Phil as a business they're happy to take advantage of and Phil has finally had enough.

From Phil's perspective, there is nothing more disheartening than spending hours assembling encoder boards, diligently testing each one individually, carefully packing them and then sending them all around the world, to then having a modeller say that they don't work and want a refund when in reality it is their ineptitude at best and at worst their outright dishonesty for it “not working”. Inevitably they work OK when returned, but then what do you do with them, you can hardly sell a second-hand encoder.

Also, there is the time commitment, I know Phil and me both spend hours developing projects and then supporting them, which leaves little time to actually fly, let alone build. I don’t think Phil has had time to build a model in years as all his time has been spent programming and on support. I guess Phil is going to get things more in balance. I sometimes wonder the same thing.

Rant over.

But I also feel sorry for that same customer, presumably, they wanted to convert a vintage transmitter and now they have lost their chance. Those who successfully convert their first transmitter are soon on to conversion numbers two and three, it's addictive and rewarding, a hobby within a hobby.

I don't know if I can change Phil's mind and get him selling encoders again, but after having a talk with him yesterday, we wondered if we can do more to help people succeed in their conversions by having a more detailed FAQ section on the forum, we both get asked the same questions over and over again.

There are two topics that are most frequent, people's lack of suitable test gear and I'm not talking about expensive oscilloscopes or logic analysers but simple things like ppm meters that can be assembled for only £15 - £20. The other frequent topic is transmitters with separate trim pot's such as single stick cuddle-boxes and slightly later sets with open gimbal sticks. We'll make a start on those topics first and work our way through other FAQ such as the merits of different modules, batteries to use and “how to upload a program to an Arduino” to encourage more of you to actually “do it yourself” rather than relying on Phil or my encoder boards. But this will take time and as I said above, time is a commodity that Phil and I are lacking at the moment, so it may take a few weeks/months to get there. If there are any of you out there who are prepared to help, it would be really appreciated coming from a different perspective, I know at times I forget how much technical knowledge I take for granted as I've been involved with electronics, both professionally and as a hobby for 40+ years.

Mike
Spike S
Posts: 181
Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 14:59
Location: Salisbury UK

Re: Encoders

Post by Spike S »

Mike, that's not a rant but an apposite appraisal of a disagreeable trend. Failure to pay a 'Cottage Industry' supplier is just not acceptable - especially when only at (or sometimes below) cost of parts.
Having first learned to use a soldering iron properly when building a Terrytone and other RC gizmos from magazine articles 60+ years ago, that side of the model boating/flying hobby (having a better understanding of what all the Wiggly Amps were doing) eventually contributed in later professional life. More recently, I am indeed grateful to Phil and others on this Forum for the ability now to refresh that sense of achievement and nostalgia by returning to my RC roots using (almost) totally reliable RF links. Those of us who never progressed much beyond BBC Basic coding are in awe of those who are fluent in C++, Assembler etc. The resulting Mode Zero modules are a great asset. Nevertheless, beginners should be warned to walk before they attempt to run and to accept that the occasional puff of magic white smoke (self-generated by ignorance) is encountered in most Design workshops at some stage of development, especially if the user fails to RTFM. It should be seen not as a problem to be solved by chequebook but as a valuable "AFLO" (another f** learning opportunity) on the way to enhanced knowledge.
I do hope that the Mode Zero environment that has evolved so successfully will not be seriously hindered by inconsiderate individuals.

A FAQ section might be a useful addition but could require significant management effort. However, the "F" part might only be known to the current module suppliers. Nevertheless, the search engine on this Forum is a powerful tool which, with a bit of diligence, can supply most answers.
Spike S
(Tune for maximum smoke)
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_AL_
Posts: 160
Joined: 17 Feb 2018, 01:09
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: Encoders

Post by _AL_ »

Sorry to hear it Phil.
You would think people interested in bringing old radios back to life would have some appreciation.
Martin
Posts: 744
Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 14:11
Location: Warwickshire

Re: Encoders

Post by Martin »

In some ways, it's a good thing when Chinese companies decide to make and sell knock-offs of our designs.

https://uk.banggood.com/Lantian-Mini-Hi ... 47689.html

It means we don't have the worry, or cost, of making and distributing the items ourselves. Some acknowledgement or recognition of the original designer would be nice, but you can't have everything.
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