CAA registration 'consultation'

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jackdaw
Posts: 165
Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 20:30
Location: Wet and Windy North Wales

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by jackdaw »

Lucky you to be in Australia. Here in the UK the BMFA believed all its members would be exempt from registration and repeatedly told everyone that 'things would be much the same. We would not notice any changes'. How wrong they were. They were sold a lie by the establishment. IMO unless there are changes then aeromodelling in the UK is all but dead. It will take a few years for it to finally be buried. Although, I'm sure that even after mass participation is over there will be a handful of rich determined people who will continue to fly expensive planes.
NeilMac
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Location: Nth Somerset

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by NeilMac »

I said on the 'disappeared' thread that I have been here before as a pistol shooter and the aspect that people have not yet got to grips with is the damage these measures will do the the aeromodelling industry.

After the pistol ban many suppliers and businesses either had to completely change or close, as happened, with the resulting loss of jobs. The same thing will happen to the manufacturers, distributors and model shops with only companies that have strong lines of cars, boats etc being able to withstand the loss of business.

I know the model trade has changed massively in the last 40 years, with local model shops disappearing and the internet taking over, but even the internet companies will not be immune to this as UK sales of model aircraft grind to a halt.

I see boom times ahead for the suppliers of indoor model aircraft.
"I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game"
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Mike_K
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by Mike_K »

I'm not quite so pessimistic as everybody else on here.

The CAA's hands are slightly tied due to the European legislation, but there is room for manoeuvre if it wasn't for the government's position. Rather than sitting here moaning about it, I've got another appointment with my local MP to ask if he has raised my concerns with the air ministry as he promised (it also helps that I know him socially as his daughter was in the same class at school as mine a few years back). I also wrote to the new transport secretary Grant Shapps, pointing out what a poor job his predecessor Grayling did for us aeromodellers and the unintended consequences. I hope you've all written to your local MP, the Minister for Aviation and the Transport Secretary?

For my sins, I'm a member of 5 model clubs with 7 flying sites between them (2 local, 2 for historic reasons and my original club from when I was a kid). CAP1789 would not affect 4 of the sites, it would restrict some airspace on 2 of them and potentially stop flying on the other. Loosing one site out of seven isn't good, but not disastrous. And I don't think other flying sites local to me (where I'm not a member) would be affected. But I guess if you fly from a site that would be affected and there is no other local club, then it's not so good.

While the registration will be a hassle, it isn't a show stopper. If the £16.50 charge is applied, it's less than a gallon of glow fuel or a lipo and about the same as a can of Model Technics diesel fuel. Surely we can all afford that? And will it really happen on time if at all? The CAA are just following the government's request and they will have little spare time with Brexit.

The proposed tests are presently a joke. I hear from somebody who tried the online test that it's not even in "beta testing" stage yet. And as it's online, one of my clubs is planning to get together for a club evening and do the tests "jointly".

And who knows, the BMFA may yet get concessions and it may turn into a non-event. Don't forget that the CAA gave all BMFA (and LMA/SAA) members exemption from the 400 feet height limit after it was introduced. We may have to wait until CAP1789 comes into force before any exemptions are made.

Mike
NeilMac
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Location: Nth Somerset

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by NeilMac »

If the legislation comes into being as it is currently drafted I cannot think of a single local club that will survive.

Weston club is close to a road and farm buildings.

Woodspring Wings has roads on two sides of the site, bordering their land and again lots of farm buildings.

The club down in the Gordano Valley would be OK with regards to roads, but farm buildings could be an issue.

Weston Zoyland is alongside a busy road and is in the middle of a farming and populated area.

Crook Peak has roads below two of the main ridges, including the much used Westward side. Over and above that it is criss crossed with footpaths and is constantly in use by the general public.
"I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game"
jackdaw
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Joined: 16 Feb 2018, 20:30
Location: Wet and Windy North Wales

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by jackdaw »

Don't forget slope soaring. I cant see many, if any, sites being useable. I know the Orme near me would be a 'no go'. Quite apart from all the airspace limits etc involved there is the attitude of land owners to consider. I would imagine there will be some who will reconsider their arrangements with model clubs and take the attitude of not wishing to have any potential problems arising from this new legislation in the future.
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Mike_K
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by Mike_K »

NeilMac wrote: 31 Jul 2019, 14:14 If the legislation comes into being as it is currently drafted I cannot think of a single local club that will survive.
Neil, one of the points I was trying to make was that if the legislation comes into being it will affect us all in one way or the other. But have you written to your local MP, Lady Vere the Minister for Aviation and Grant Shapps the Transport Secretary? If nobody makes a fuss, they'll wrongly assume we are all happy with it. And you can ask for an appointment with your local MP at one of their "surgery sessions" (the BMFA can brief you on what to say and what not to say). The more we canvas them, the more likely they will listen. And I blame the government and in particular the previous Minister for Transport Chris Grayling, not the CAA. The CAA are just following their political masters.

I agree that slope soaring sites will be a big problem as they have footpaths all over the hills. But if they will become unusable when CAP 1789 comes in then technically they are already unusable. In CAP 1763 (published on 20 February 2019), section 95 state we should keep the minimum following distances:
(c) within 50 metres of any vessel, vehicle or structure which is not under the control of the SUA operator or the remote pilot of the aircraft; or
(d) subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), within 50 metres of any person.

I can't see how we can legally be using slope sites now, but we all are! If anything things improve with CAP 1789 as we won't be allowed to overfly uninvolved people, but currently we should keep 50m away!

And a lawyer in one of the clubs says that agricultural buildings are only considered industrial if they have people regularly using them (or words to that effect), not barns and other storage buildings, so they shouldn't affect you.

So let's all keep fighting to get all BMFA members exempt, rather than resigning ourselves to the regulations.

Mike
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ozrs
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Location: West Australia

Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by ozrs »

Previous docs I posted were lost, so here they are again (Australian context).

I put in a Freedom of Information (FOI) request (attached) and got the attached Regulatory Impact Statement (RIS) - no other docs released so far.

The RIS starts (2nd para) with a demonstrably false statement.

"RPA operated without regard to safety and within existing legislation presents an unmitigated risk to aviation safety, Including the risk of a catastrophic collision with a passenger aircraft"

On page 14 it states:

"in addition, some of the benefits In relation to enforcement have been withheld as it may reduce their effectiveness"

what are these? perhaps in a couple of years time, sending all owners, that their registered drone, must now be fitted with 'electronic conspicuity' or decommissioned?
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Richard
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ozrs
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by ozrs »

iflylilplanes wrote: 31 Jul 2019, 07:36 I talked to a past member of the MAAA committee on the weekend, he keeps on top of the CASA goings on in our sport, he believes, from his MAAA committee friends that all members of the MAAA will be exempt from the registration and licencing, ....
This appears to be only for members flying exclusively at CASA approved flying sites.

I see this as an issue for 'Old Timer' flyers, (in W.A. at least) where we rely a lot on land owners (farmers) to grant access to fields (which are constantly changing due to change of ownership, cropping, grazing, access issues etc).
Richard
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ozrs
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by ozrs »

regulations now available.

So a kid flying a 300g park flyer in a local park will now be a criminal?

at least gliders seem to have been exempted from registration.
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Richard
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ozrs
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Re: CAA registration 'consultation'

Post by ozrs »

Seem drone delivery will fit the standard multinational business model:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-26/ ... s/11345970
Richard
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